Topic: Council OKs contract for more land at Community Park (Read 3310 times)

BigCfromtheRanch · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2009, 08:11:23 am »

Quote from: elektech on July 29, 2009, 07:48:50 am

Quote from: Heather on July 29, 2009, 12:55:58 am
I am thinking maybe insurance for a pool wouldnt be that bad. I mean I wonder (Josh??) how much WMF pays for insurance on its pools. Because we allow guests and what not. I dont see how a city park pool would be that much more.

Logically, you think that would be the case. However, a lawyer would see it differently. They would see a city as having much deeper pockets than an HOA has. In other words, something happens at an HOA owned pool, the lawsuit would likely seek substantially less than if the same thing happened at a city-owned pool. Result, much higher insurance rates for the city-owned facilities than the private-owned "community" facilities.

I don't think the deep pockets is that big of an issue. Texas law limits liability for government entities, municipalities and school districts to $100,000. So if someone where injured or killed at one of the parks or pools the family could only recover up to that amount. I didn't believe this at first but I have a friend who is involved in a lawsuit with a school district because he was severely injured in an accident with a school district vehicle, in which, the school vehicle was at fault. His lawyer told him that. regardless of his actual damages, which exceed this amount, he can only recover the $100,000.

yesitsme · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:01:09 am »

I believe you BigC.. but I find that hard to believe. I guess sometimes there are other entities that can be sued in tandem to increase the amount, depending on the situation.
... what sprang to mind was Ft.Worth (Municipality) who paid a LOT more then that for two incidents... 1) when a light pole fell on and killed someone at a City site, and 2) when those tourists drowned at their Water Garden.

ranger1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:27:22 am »

Quote from: Jai Lespoir on July 28, 2009, 02:46:35 pm

Our park will have 170 acres...that's a far cry from 1300. I don't think that's the kind of space needed for paddle boat lakes and horse trails. We need more ball fields, which I believe are in the plan, and an additional play/recreation area that was less traditional would be cool. In this climate, and also in regard to the direction the demographics are going in Forney, I think a nice pool complex would be a great asset to the community. I think it should also be able to accommodate competitive swimming, maybe even in a joint effort with the school district.

Baseball fields are on the planner.

I don't see them doing a pool since almost every community has their own.

yesitsme · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:38:20 am »

I don't see them doing a pool either.. they never would consider it in the past even before the new 'communities' or the new Park.
However, I think you are looking at it wrong Ranger, it seems to me that only a few 'communities' have their own pool(s) if you look at the big picture.
Individuals w their own pools (in the backyard), well now, that's a different story - LOTS of those.

Young Marines Mom · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2009, 01:59:41 pm »

It's too bad that the city wouldn't consider a community pool. I remember when I was a kid - that is the only place I went in the summer - if I wasn't at home, I was at the pool. They did swimming lessons in the morning through the Red Cross actually. The did summer swim teams - morning also. They employed certified lifeguards - which if any of the boys in the scout troop here have their Life Saving Merit Badge (if I remember you get certified through the Red Cross, but I could be mistaken, it's been awhile since I was involved in the scouting program), I believe they can become lifeguards. Each person paid for a memebership for the year, or you could pay as you go. I don't ever remember the pool having problems with vandalism and such - there were no chairs available

There even was a kiddie pool too.

There is a city pool in the town we lived near before we moved here. Charged as you go. They even had a little concession stand with snacks and drinks (non-al of course).

Josh · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:30:25 pm »

I forget which city it is, but there was an article I was reading recently about an area city that was considering having their pool filled in and a splash park built on top because that city, like pretty much every city in the area, was losing massive amounts of money on the pool every year and just couldn't justify keeping it open when they can barely afford to keep basic city services going in the current economy.

Community pools are very, very expensive to build, maintain and repair. Mesquite charges a per-person-per-use fee on top of the money the city sinks into the pools from the general fund, and they still had to shut down one of their 3 pools this year because they couldn't come up with the $45,000 of repairs that pool needed this year.

Mesquite loses approximately, on average, $120,000 per pool, per year into each of their pools. That's after accounting for the fees they charge people to use the pools - that's $120,000 per pool, per year that has to come out of the city's budget.

So, no, the per-use fees don't cover the cost of a city/municipal pool. The taxpayers within the city end up footing a good majority of the bill, and in a city like Mesquite with a good mix of commercial and residential taxpayers, quite a bit of that revenue comes from property tax on businesses and sales tax. That gives them the kind of budget to do things like operate 3 pools, etc. Unfortunately, at this stage in Forney's growth, almost all of the city's budget comes from property tax and almost all of that comes from residential property tax. So, there's a limited amount of money to work with and the only way to get more is to bring more businesses to town and/or raise property taxes on all of us. Given the current economic outlook, it's going to be a while before the budget is boosted by new businesses, so we're all facing property tax increases to fund any new amenities.

Given that, the city's going to be careful about what they propose and what they ask the voters to pay for, so I don't see a pool happening any time soon, and I don't think that's a bad thing. There's more pressing needs within the city that $120,000 per year could be used on, in my opinion.

Nate Dogg · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:36:36 pm »

Josh gave an opinion? LOL, just giving you a hard time buddy!

Good info and thanks!

luvcassie · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:36:39 pm »

Thanks for squashing my hopes Josh....

I see your point though and agree with it. There are other things my tax money could and should be used for, guess I will just have to get the husband to start digging a hole in the backyard

Josh · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:03:30 pm »

Quote from: Nate Dogg on July 30, 2009, 02:36:36 pm

Josh gave an opinion? LOL, just giving you a hard time buddy!

Good info and thanks!

Quote from: luvcassie on July 30, 2009, 02:36:39 pm

Thanks for squashing my hopes Josh....

I see your point though and agree with it. There are other things my tax money could and should be used for, guess I will just have to get the husband to start digging a hole in the backyard

LOL, sorry about that! It just hit home because of hearing people ask about amenities in Windmill Farms when the HOA continues to be what seems to me one step away from bankruptcy by the end of the year. That, combined with the fact that the Kaufman County Fresh Water Supply District 1-C (which I serve on the board of) is starting to talk about the property tax rate for next year at our meeting next month gives me a perspective on this that a lot of people probably don't usually have. The recession is hitting (local, at least) governments almost as hard as its hitting the average citizen, if not harder. Especially governments that receive a majority of their income from residential property tax.

For example, Forney's property tax rate right now is $0.680535 per $100 of value. Meaning that for every $1000 of value your home loses thanks to the recession, the city's annual budget takes a $6.80 hit. Multiple that by every home in the city and then combine that with the fact that many governmental agencies set their budgets each year under the assumption that 'homes never depreciate' and you can see how every penny of the budget becomes precious and I get a little opinionated when we start discussing expensive new amenities.

Heather · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2009, 07:48:36 pm »

Hmm... you just gave me another question but not related to the park. What happens if WMF HOA goes bankrupt? Does that mean no more HOA for WMF or???

KristieandJason · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2009, 10:07:22 pm »

Heather,

I do not know the specific answer to your question, but I do know from a mortgage lending perspective...you do NOT want your HOA to go bankrupt. I'm not sure if it's still the case since I've been out of it for a couple years now, but we would not lend in a community with an HOA currently in BK...you think you can't sell your house now. . . . . .

Heather · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2009, 10:14:47 pm »

Quote from: KristieandJason on July 30, 2009, 10:07:22 pm

Heather,

I do not know the specific answer to your question, but I do know from a mortgage lending perspective...you do NOT want your HOA to go bankrupt. I'm not sure if it's still the case since I've been out of it for a couple years now, but we would not lend in a community with an HOA currently in BK...you think you can't sell your house now. . . . . .

Wow I wonder why? Seems just another reason why HOA's are so dangerous to a community. That they can totally jack your ability to sell your home. Craziness.

I have been told I want to hold off about 2-3 years. Given the things someone was telling me today... if I can hold my house that long... there are going to be some mega changes that happen to Forney. I hope they are right. I just wanna get back what I put into my house. I dont even need a profit lol

kingwillie · « **Reply #27 on:** July 30, 2009, 10:26:28 pm »

If you want something "community" pay the taxes. It is that simple. There are parks for those who want per use payables.

Higher property taxes are a good thing. Higher property taxes weed out problems. They just do. If you are bent on keeping your school & property taxes at a low, enjoy your neighbors, their cars on blocks, their "deals" at all hours, and so on.

My two cents.

Josh · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2009, 11:57:11 am »

Quote from: kingwillie on July 30, 2009, 10:26:28 pm

If you want something "community" pay the taxes. It is that simple. There are parks for those who want per use payables.

Higher property taxes are a good thing. Higher property taxes weed out problems. They just do. If you are bent on keeping your school & property taxes at a low, enjoy your neighbors, their cars on blocks, their "deals" at all hours, and so on.

My two cents.

I don't want my taxes at a "low"; I want them reasonable. Did you know that by next year, property taxes in KCFWSD 1-C (Phases 2 & 3 of Windmill Farms) will almost certainly be over $3? And that's not including any new tax for the parks district.

By comparison, those living in Forney are paying $2.69. And by further comparison, the taxes in Phases 2 & 3 of Windmill Farms will be higher than the taxes in Travis Ranch, Mesquite, Dallas, Plano, Frisco, Rockwall, Fate, and pretty much any other city/community in the area with the exception of Heartland, which we may end up slightly higher than, or slightly lower than. Add in the parks tax, which people in Windmill Farms will pay, but people in Heartland won't (and you're telling me that people in Heartland are less likely to use the Forney parks than people in Windmill Farms? Doesn't make much sense to me), and the taxes in portions of WF could easily exceed those in Heartland and be literally the highest taxes in the region.

From what I can tell, portions of Windmill Farms could actually have one of the highest tax rates in the state very, very soon. Those of you living in Windmill Farms, think about that for a second. I love our community - we have some great neighbors and beautiful surroundings. But is your experience in Windmill Farms on par with that of people living in Plano? Frisco? Fate? Austin? Because we're paying just as much in sales tax and even more in property tax than residents of those cities.

So, no, I don't want a low tax rate - I want a reasonable tax rate. I don't mind being taxed if it adds value to my home and to my community, but there is a point at which I'm so heavily taxed that I want to see some major improvements to my quality of life for every extra dime they want to tack on to my tax bill.

I suppose I wouldn't be so passionate about the issue if we weren't in the middle of such a bad recession - that's why I was surprised to hear that the city might put this to a vote this fall. Asking us to vote to raise our expenses while so many of us are losing income is a pretty gutsy move - it cost the supporters of the TVCC annexation their election, and I'm afraid if the city rushes on the parks district the same thing could easily happen to them.

yesitsme · « **Reply #29 on:** July 31, 2009, 01:36:08 pm »

That REALLY doesn't sound fair AT ALL. Something has gone horribly wrong.

Twenty Peaceful Minutes

Author Topic: Council OKs contract for more land at Community Park (Read 3310 times)

BigCfromtheRanch

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yesitsme

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ranger1

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yesitsme

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Young Marines Mom

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Josh

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Nate Dogg

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luvcassie

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Josh

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Heather

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KristieandJason

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Heather

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kingwillie

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Josh

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yesitsme

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